Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:14:23 EDT From: Storywrightr@aol.com Subject: All Grown Up--Part 4 Disclaimer: The following is a work of fiction. It contains characters who share names, descriptions, etc., with real-life people (specifically members of the groups *N SYNC and Backstreet Boys); however, this is all fantasy and in no way is to insinuate anything about those people. Thanks to Eriker for reading--and much more. Your friendship is very important to me. Comments are welcome--positive or negative! E-mail me at storywrightr@aol.com. Thanks. All Grown Up 4--Or Not So Grown Up? B: Hi Doc, thanks for calling back. How does this work? Do you have some time to talk? Dr: Yes, Brian. I have time. This is like a session in the office, but just on the phone. Let's begin and see how things progress. B: Thanks. This is a first for me. Dr: Yes, we've not talked by phone before have we? And in all these years, I don't think you've ever asked me to call you. B: I guess I was feeling a little panicky. Dr: Why is that? You didn't express any sense of panic when we saw each other on Monday. B: No, I wasn't feeling it then. I was looking forward to my AA anniversary. And I told you how the phone call with Justin went. Dr: So what has changed your feelings? B: This is pretty weird talking to you on the phone instead of in person . . . Dr: Are you uncomfortable with it? B: It just seems a little disconnected or something. Dr: That makes sense. You can't see me; you can't use your eyes to judge my reactions. B: Yeah, I guess that's it. Dr: As much as a phone conversation can make us feel in touch with someone, it can also feel disconnected or distanced. B: Yeah. You can't always tell how they are feeling just from what they say or from their voice. Dr: That's right. Is that how you felt in your phone conversation with Justin? B: I don't know. Maybe. Dr: That same distance can sometimes make it easier to say things. People sometimes feel able to make comments they wouldn't if they were in person. B: Yeah, I think I've felt that some at times. Dr: Do you feel it now--with us? B: No. So far I think I just feel odd. I mean it was odd to speak to Justin on the phone, but we used to speak on the phone. Maybe I felt I could read him on the phone--even after all these years. I guess I'm not feeling that with you. Dr: What do you think made you feel panicky? B: I'm just suddenly feeling scared about my meeting and about speaking. Dr: And about Justin being there? B: Yeah, I guess. Dr: Is he going to be there? B: I'm not sure yet. Dr: Have you spoken to him again? B: No. Dr: Isn't your meeting Saturday? B: Yeah. Dr: And? B: And I guess I need to talk to him. Dr: Are you thinking he may not want to go to the meeting? B: I don't know. . . . Maybe I'm thinking he shouldn't go. Dr: Why not? B: It just might not be best. Dr: For Justin or for you? B: [quietly] For him, I think. Dr: Why is that? Do you feel you may hurt him? Do you feel like you need to protect him? B: I don't know. Dr: What brought on the change in your thinking? You seemed so comfortable with the idea of seeing him. You seemed to think it was important and even good for him to be there. B: I know, but that was before . . . Dr: Before what? B: I talked to my daughter last night. Dr: Oh. You hadn't mentioned that. B: Hmmm . . . I guess that was one of those pieces of information I should have included, huh? Dr: It sounds like it might have been an important conversation. B: Yeah, I guess. Dr: What was said? B: She had talked to Justin. She knew that he and I had talked. Dr: What did she say about that? B: Not a whole lot. I mean not a whole lot was said. It's more how it made me feel. Dr: How did it make you feel? B: Just that maybe she thought it was a bad idea for us to talk. Dr: Did she say that? B: No. And she said it wasn't true when I asked her. Dr: But you don't believe her. B: [loudly] She didn't lie to me! Dr: Is that how it felt just now? Like I accused your daughter of lying? B: No. I mean--I just mean that she didn't lie about it. She said it was okay. Dr: Did you feel betrayed by Justin? That he had told her about your call? B: I don't think so. I don't know. I mean, it's so difficult. I thought I was doing a good thing calling him. I thought it would be good for me and him and her. I thought maybe we could all be like a family again. Or at least be able to get together for holidays or something. Dr: And now it feels difficult? B: Yeah. I mean, I guess it was always difficult. It's not like it was going to be easy to see him again. Dr: But you had assumed that your daughter would either be in favor of it or not involved--not even know about it. B: Yeah, I guess that's it. I don't guess I even thought about her when I asked him about the meeting. I guess I was surprised that she knew. Dr: And you don't think she approves? B: I don't know. She just made me think about how bad things were when we were together at the end. How it really wasn't good for her. Dr: Do you think she's angry with you? B: Angry? . . . I don't know. We were talking more honestly than we have in the past. Dr: In what way? B: I guess more grown up. I think we've kind of stayed papa and his little girl, you know? But she was asking me some pretty direct questions. Dr: Such as? B: She asked if I thought I was gay. Dr: Did you answer her? B: Yeah. I said that I thought I had proven that. But maybe that's been eating at me too. I mean, I am gay, right? But at the same time it's not like I had always thought I was gay--I mean, I feel like I fell in love with Justin and then realized that I loved a man and so I must be gay. You know? Dr: Do you find yourself attracted to men? B: Yes. Dr: And to women? B: Not in the same way. Dr: Do you self-identify as gay? B: Yeah. It's just that I guess it doesn't mean what I thought "gay" meant when I was a kid--or maybe not even now. Dr: There's certainly a wide range of personality types within the gay population. I think society has gotten to the point of realizing that homosexuality is expressed differently by different people. We've moved beyond the stereotypes for gay people just as we did before that for racial and ethnic groups. But are you comfortable being a gay man? B: I don't know. I guess so. I'm comfortable loving Justin. It doesn't bother me that he's a man. Dr: What about another man? Could you be comfortable loving another man? B: I don't know. . . . I don't know. I don't guess I want to. Dr: But what if Justin is not available? B: I don't know. Dr: What is the fantasy? What would you like to happen? B: I say I just want to get to know him again. That I just want him in my life. . . . But if I'm really honest with myself, I want him to love me again. I want to be with him. I want to live with him. I want to wake up to him and go to bed beside him and I want to play my music for him and hear his music and hear about what he's doing every day. I want us to take long walks on the beach and just be there for each other. I want to grow old with him. I still love him so much. And being sober and dealing with all the other things through the years with you has just seemed to clear the path for me to know that all the clearer-- for me to know that I love him and want him. Dr: And if he's not available? B: What do you mean? Dr: What if Justin doesn't want that? It's not unusual for one person's love for another to not be returned or not be returned as intensely. And for the two of you with your history together, Justin may not be willing or able or may just not share your feelings. B: [long pause, no response] Dr: Brian? B: [quietly] Yes? Dr: What are you feeling right now? B: I don't know. Dr: What are you thinking about? B: It just feels so hopeless. Dr: What feels hopeless? B: Life. I try so hard to get somewhere and I get there just to find out there's so much further to go. And I guess I'm really lonely. I really miss my family. Dr: We've talked about how important your family is to you. You were raised to believe that family is the most important thing in the world. You then discovered that you were in love with a man and not a woman. Together the two of you created a family--the two of you and then a third, your daughter. But the family didn't work out as well as you had hoped. Things continued to disintegrate until you stopped living together. I believe that you experience the loss of your family as the greatest loss in your life. It was painful and obviously remains very painful for you. And as you continue to get in touch with your feelings without masking them with drinking or some of the other crutches you've used, the pain becomes more real and more intense. B: Yeah. So you think I should give up on Justin. Dr: It's interesting you take my comments to mean that. I didn't say that. I think you need to get in touch with your pain and the feelings of loss. You must experience these feelings without alcohol hiding them from you. You might also want to think about and realize that you did not lose your daughter. Or do you feel that you did? B: No . . . I guess not. But I kind of feel like an outsider to her life. I've never felt as close to her as Justin is. Or maybe just in a different way. We've always been close and affectionate, but maybe we weren't very honest. I had the feeling last night that she wants me to start treating her as an adult. I guess I tend to think of her and treat her as my little girl. She thinks I try and protect her. Dr: Do you try to protect her? B: Yeah, sure--isn't that what a father is supposed to do? Dr: That's certainly a part of a parent's role--in certain situations at least and at certain ages. But I don't think it's all of the parent's role. B: I haven't spent all that much time with her. I guess I've filled most of the time we've had just wanting to make her happy. I end up hugging her a lot and telling her I love her. Dr: Is that what you wanted? To feel hugged and loved? B: [pause] Yeah. I guess I did. I guess I do. And I don't want her to feel like she's not loved just because Justin and I aren't together. Dr: Do you have any reason to think she doesn't? B: No. I guess not. I still wish she had stayed in school though. Not quit to start acting. Dr: Is that something you wish for her or for you? B: She asked that, sort of. I guess I wish I had had more time to just be a kid--had the college experience--just as a student. Dr: Do you think you wanted that for Justin too? Do you have some of those feelings for Justin? Do you wish to protect him? B: Hmmm . . . maybe. I kind of got hurt the other day talking to him when I thought he wished things had been different twenty years ago. But I guess some of what I used to feel for him back then was wanting to protect him. He was sort of my baby--you know, that's what I called him. I almost slipped on the phone when I was talking to him and called him that. There was nothing I wanted more back then than to protect him and make him happy. But it seemed the more I tried, the more it backfired. Dr: You don't think you made Justin happy twenty years ago? B: I did, but I also hurt him. We did hurt each other a lot. . . . Why was it that we hurt each other so much when we loved each other so much? Dr: Why do you think? B: Justin thinks it was mostly that we were just so young and so immature. That we were little boys playing at adult games--I think that's how he said it. Dr: Do you think he's right? B: I guess. . . . I guess actually I could--maybe should--take comfort in that. That's a lot more comfortable than thinking it happened for some other reason. . . . It also seems to mean that we wouldn't let it happen today. Dr: Is that why you want to be with Justin today? To show him you could be different? That your relationship could be different? B: [pause] I guess it's part of it. . . . I'm sorry, but I can't just think that that's all of it. I still think I love him. That I loved him then and I love him now. Dr: Do you feel like I'm attacking that? That I don't believe you love him? B: [pause] I guess it feels a little like that. Like you're trying to find other reasons I want to be with him again other than loving him. Dr: You know that much of what we do together is to look at feelings. Some feelings are what they appear to be. Others are different from what they first appear. Many are more complicated. It's important to understand feelings as completely as possible. And the more important they feel, the more important it is to look at them. B: Yeah, I know. [pause] If I have another chance to be in Justin's life, I guess I want to understand what I'm doing. I don't want to do it wrong again. I don't want to hurt him or our daughter. Dr: Or yourself? B: [pause] I guess. Didn't think about me. Dr: Let's get back to the feelings that resulted in your call to me. You said you were feeling panicky. About what? Do you still feel that way? B: I guess I was feeling panicky about seeing Justin. About having him at the meeting. About it being on our anniversary. . . . About the other call. Dr: From your daughter? B: Yeah. Dr: And are you still feeling panicky? B: No, not really. But I guess I still feel confused. Dr: About? B: All of it. About seeing Justin. Dr: I don't want you to hear this as directing your actions, but I do want to point out to you how many different feelings, how many levels of feelings, how many different arenas you are bringing together in one event. AA has been very important to you. You have said that you feel it "saved your life." Those are strong words. Eight years is a long time. You also have very strong feelings about what happened between you and Justin twenty years ago--and through the ten years you were together. You seem to feel a need to undo or redo aspects of that relationship. You also seem to want to explore the strong feelings you have for Justin today--whether they are for the Justin you knew or the Justin he is today. But I think it's natural to feel somewhat panicky about all of these parts of your life--all of these feelings--coming together in one event. Perhaps they don't need to come together all during that one hour on Saturday. B: [pause] I guess I have tried to bite off a lot, huh? It just seemed so right . . . for everything to come together. I mean, it is our anniversary too-- Justin's and mine. But, I guess that's just a bunch of romantic bullshit. I mean, we've not been together for ten years. It's not really our anniversary. Dr: Do you want him to hear you speak? Are there things you wanted him to hear you say before that group? B: I guess . . . I think there were maybe things I didn't want him to hear too. Dr: Perhaps this gave you the reason you needed to call him? B: An excuse? . . . Yeah, it did. It felt like I needed a reason to call him. Something I could use as an excuse to call him. You think it was a mistake? Dr: I'm not going to judge that Brian. I will say that if you choose to bring all of these issues together during that one hour on Saturday, you are placing a huge amount of stress upon yourself. Any one of these issues is stressful--and important to you. Have you noticed how we most often try to look at one issue at a time during our sessions? Attempting to resolve several issues at once may only result in confusing your feelings about all of them. B: Yeah. Dr: [pause] If you choose to not have Justin at the meeting, it doesn't preclude you from meeting with him. Just the two of you. Or perhaps you'll decide that you want to explore some of your feelings in further phone conversations. B: Yeah, that's right. I mean, now that I've talked to him once. Dr: Are you feeling less panicky? B: Yeah, I am. Thanks Doc. And also like I have a lot to think about. Dr: We're scheduled to see each other Friday, right? B: Yeah. Dr: And you know you can call if you need to talk before that. B: Yeah. I still don't like talking to you on the phone--but I'm glad it's an option when I can't see you. Dr: That's a good way to consider it. It's an alternative available to you when a regular session isn't possible. B: Yeah. Thanks Doc. Dr: You're welcome Brian. I'll see you Friday. Don't hesitate to call if you need anything before that. B: I won't. Thanks. Bye. Dr.: Good-bye.