Joe_Bates_Saga________________________________________________________43__ 43. Chapter Passing low stacks of panties and matching bras, Joe and Norm entered the Victoria's Secret store. The dainty satiny things already took on a new meaning in Joe's life. Instead of imagining Linda, or some other female wearing them, he now could now wear them himself. Unlike Norm, who had experimented wearing women's things as a male, this was a completely new experience for Joe, but he learned quickly. Norm was obviously excited. He was afraid but anxious, willing to try on everything he saw. Joe stopped at a table of colorful, silky, bras. Picking one up, he held it out to Norm. "How about this one?" Joe suggested. Norm took the little black underwire demi-cup and held it by the strap. "Do you think it might fit?" He asked curiously. "I don't know." Joe admitted. "We'll have to figure out your size." Carefully inspecting the cup lining, Norm looked at Joe and grinned. "I really can wear stuff like this. I can wear it all the time." he said, suddenly acting amazed at the concept. "That's right." Joe agreed. "In fact, you'll be expected to from now on." Norm went to the table and began sorting through the colors and styles. He kept asking Joe if this size or that might fit. A young sales woman soon joined them. "Can I be of help?" She asked. "I would like to buy one of these." Norm answered simply. "Maybe a couple of them." "What is your size, ma'am?" The young woman asked, respecting Norm's still obviously greater age. "Size?" Norm returned. "What bra size do you wear?" She repeated. "Uh... Oh, I don't know." Norm replied. The woman noticed Norm wasn't wearing a bra. "OK then. Let's find out." The young woman said, unfazed. She went to her counter and returned with a measuring tape. "Please follow me." She ordered. Norm followed as ordered. They went into the first available dressing room. Joe waited outside, knowing what Norm was going through. He remembered that first morning, when he went through the same ordeal. In a moment, the sales girl came out of the dressing cubicle and went to a drawer along the wall. She selected a bra and took it back to Norm. In a couple of minutes, she brought that one out and selected another. When she came out this time, Norm followed. It was obvious from the funny grin on his face, as well as the more defined shape of his chest, that he was now wearing a bra. "I'm a thirty-eight, B cup" Norm whispered as he followed the girl past Joe, a big smile on his face. Norm went to the table and began sorting through styles, looking at each little size tag and sometimes placing one on a separate pile. He soon had about four or five selections. Joe just stood and watched. Walking over to the table, Joe spoke. "You might as well get some matching underpants to go with those." He suggested. "Yeah. Good idea." Norm agreed, taking his assortment to the next table displaying panties that matched the bras. Joe went to the table and helped Norm match his clothing selections. "I prefer the ones without lace." Joe said matter-of-factly. "Why is that?" Norm asked. "I don't know." Joe replied. "I just always felt that way. Now that I wear stuff like this, I don't mind soft, silky things... And I like colors... But I still don't like lace. It's just too scratchy, or something." "I think it's OK." Norm decided. "I do kind of like the silky stuff too, though... Can you imagine wearing this thing?" He held up a tiny red thong panty. "I've already got one, but it's black." Joe admitted, grinning widely. Norm looked at the little garment. He studied the cut carefully, wondering how it might feel like to wear something that tiny. "Why don't you try it?" Joe suggested. "It don't cost much, and you just might like the way it looks on you. It will take some getting used to the way it feels." He said knowingly. "As if it didn't take some getting used to feeling like this already." Norm interjected. "This bra makes me feel like Mae West." He wiggled his chest, causing his new bosom to sway gently, but provocatively. "You'll get used to it." Joe told him. "I hardly notice them anymore, except at night, or if I change clothes." "They hurt." Norm said. "I guess they're still growing, or something... there's this slight, dull, throbbing pain most of the time." He gently rubbed his breasts as he spoke, as of to make a point. "Yeah. Mine too. But I think it's getting a little better now." Joe offered. "You probably are going to continue the change for a week or more. Just don't get too many new clothes yet." "I'm going to be bigger than this?" Norm exclaimed. "I don't know." Joe said. "But I suspect you've just started to fill out. Your hips will surely get wider. I can tell, mine are still changing." "And looking pretty good, too." Norm complimented. "I only hope I look like you." "I think we've become what we might have been if we had been born females." Joe theorized. "We'll probably look like the daughters our parents never had." "I've got a sister." Norm corrected. "What do you think she'll think of you now?" Joe asked. Norm paused. He probably hadn't thought much of meeting any of his remaining family in this new condition. "I... I don't know." He stammered. "I guess she'll just have to get used to it." "Is she older or younger than you?" Joe asked. "Older." Norm answered. "Two years. And much more well endowed." He grinned. "Then you might be getting bigger too, I bet." Joe suggested. "Mae West, huh?" "I hope not." Norm whined, inwardly imagining a body like his sister's. "The weight seems to go straight to our butt." Joe said. "I think we'll need to be real careful with our diet if we want to stay trim. My hips and rear end get bigger each day." "But your shoulders are smaller now too, ain't they?" Norm asked, knowing how he felt. "Yeah. Maybe they are." Joe agreed. "But I don't notice them like my butt." "I can feel myself getting softer and softer." Norm said happily. "And I love it. I love this woman stuff." "I'm glad." Joe said. "Because if you don't, there's not a lot we can do about it anyway. "Why would anyone want to?" Norm asked. "How can anything be better than this?" Joe smiled. He looked at the old man, who now looked like a young woman, as he/she inspected lingerie. Maybe he was right. "It is kinda fun, isn't it?" Joe agreed. "Anyone would enjoy the change." Norm declared. "Whether they wanted to be a woman or not." "I wouldn't go that far." Joe objected, trying to slow Norm's exuberance a little. He was obviously almost giddy with the excitement of his new status. "I know at least one guy who don't like what happened to him." Joe continued, thinking of Dave. "He has a wife and kids, but he's finding it just a little hard to act like a husband and father." Norm considered Joe's words. "Yeah, I never thought of that." Norm admitted. "This would be rough if you HAD to remain a man." "It's impossible, as far as I can tell." Joe added, thinking of his own situation. Joe looked at the feminine underwear stacked in small piles around him. His changing body needed some new things too. His new, still developing breasts were outgrowing his initial size and were becoming a bit uncomfortable. Only the stretchy bras still fit adequately. Joe didn't like the loose, jiggly feeling of that type, but they were the most accommodating to his rapidly changing figure. He picked up a stretchy, lace bra, and checked if it was his size. It was. He imagined how he would look in such a feminine looking thing. Damn it, it was a bra... wasn't it? And he was a woman now... wasn't he? Why not try something like this. Norm saw Joe holding the bra as he thought. "Why don't you try it?" Norm said, repeating Joe's recommendation to him. "You might find you'd like it. I know you'd look sexy as the devil in it." Norm still spoke like an old man sometimes. "Yeah. Maybe I will." Joe decided. He found the matching panty and took that too. As he continued to look around, Joe discovered real silk panties, and touching the slippery softness made him think of similar lingerie Linda had. They felt so sensual that Joe decided to buy some. When Norm saw them, he did the same. When they took their things to the counter, the sales girl predictably used well worn lines on them. "We have matching bras for those silk hi-cuts." She said, pointing at the panties. "Oh, really?" Norm replied, his new voice sounding more surprised than he actually was. "Yes." The girl replied, walking to a nearby table. She picked up and displayed a silver gray bra without adornment other than a small (fake) pearl between the cups. Joe liked it immediately, though he knew it would probably not fit for very long. "Do you have it in ahh... say, thirty-eight-B?" Joe asked. "Sure." The girl replied. Norm looked at Joe. "I didn't know we were the same size." He said, grinning at the thought. "I was a little smaller, but I'll grow into it." Joe replied, loud enough for the sales girl to hear. She stared at them both, looking confused. "We're still growing." Joe said truthfully, knowing the words would further confuse the much younger woman. "Would you like one, too?" The woman asked Norm, recovering from her amazement. "Sure." Norm said, grinning. "Give me a matching one for each pair of shorts." He called dainty silk panties "shorts". "I think I better get some pajamas, too. And a gown." Norm added. He really needed these things, since he had nothing at all but men's things, and he was more than ready to forget about those permanently. "What would you like?" The woman asked, holding up different styles and colors. "I don't know." Norm answered. "Suggest something. What do you think would look good on me?" "This color would go with your hair." The woman suggested, looking at Norm's very male hair style. Were these two butch lesbians? "OK. Looks good to me, too." Norm agreed. "How about a dressing gown? Do you have something in silk. Like the color of this underwear?" He held up light blue silk panties and bra. "I'll check." The woman replied, quickly going to the cabinet. This was going to be a good day for sales. Joe watched the girl sorting through the gowns. He looked at the silk brassieres in his hand. These things were real silk, and quite expensive. Each was about thirty dollars. This wasn't pocket change. Even if Honeybone was going to reimburse him, maybe he should try it first. "Mind if I try this on?" Joe asked the woman. "That's a good idea." the girl answered. "Use that dressing room. Will you need assistance?" She pointed to the same little room Norm had used. Joe entered the room and closed the door. He quickly removed his top and slipped the bra off. Norm was right. It actually was fun having breasts. He noticed the tan lines from the swimsuit on his chest. His nipples instantly hardened in the cool air from the overhead vent, and Joe rubbed his fingers across them, enjoying the pleasing, slightly erotic sensation. Almost reluctantly, Joe slipped his arms into the straps of the bra, and pulled it to his chest. The gray silk bra was back-close, so Joe had to reach around to fasten the clasp. It always amazed him how easy doing that had become. He didn't know if it was his new size, or if he was really more flexible now than he had been as a male. Probably a little of both, but it felt great, whatever caused it. There was a full length mirror on one side of the cubicle. Joe looked at his reflection, standing slightly at an angle so that he could get a view of his shape. The bra fit perfectly. Joe was constantly in awe at what had happened to his body, but he had to admit, this silk bra was pure sex. It was just beginning to feel sort of normal to have breasts, but they looked and felt even more impressive encased in this soft, form fitting garment. Until now, he considered the Body Glove swimsuit to be the most provocative thing he had worn, but not anymore. Before he reluctantly removed it, Joe caressed his softness through the silk. It felt extremely good, and Joe instantly felt his clit stiffen to an unseen erection, followed almost immediately by the strange, but highly pleasurable, sensation of his labia spreading open. If he kept this up, he would be wet in moments. Good thing for the panty-liner, he thought to himself as he instinctively cupped his hand over his pubic mound. Joe grabbed his old bra and saw the new stretch-lace one. Might as well try that too, he considered. He deftly slipped into the ivory lace and hooked the clasp between his breasts. Again looking in the mirror, he saw the lace was quite sheer, and the dark circles of his pink nipples were plainly evident. It was strange to see himself in such sheer underwear. He shook his boobs, just to see them sway. This bra was much "looser" and allowed his bosom to move freely. Joe didn't like that nearly as much as the snug but firm support of his other bras. It was sexy... in a different kind of way, but... that silk one... Joe removed the lace bra and slipped into his old one. By now, wearing a bra had become second nature, and he no longer felt completely dressed without one. "Strange how quickly I've adjusted to these things." Joe thought to himself as he pulled the little blouse over his soft breasts. Joe finished dressing and went back out to the sales counter. The woman was still adding up Norm's purchases, while he was going around the store adding to them. Norm was like a kid in a candy store, buying everything the woman suggested, and anything else that caught his eye. When Norm was finally complete, and his bill covered, it was Joe's turn. Joe didn't have nearly the amount of things that Norm did, but he found himself staring at the silk underwear as she added up his purchases. He couldn't wait to wear it. And he hoped he'd get to see Norm in his new purchases too. It bothered Joe that he seemed to have a little prurient interest in Norm. Sure, he had become a quite attractive woman, but so had Joe, and Joe also knew he liked men now. But why was he finding Norm so interesting too? As Norm stood waiting for Joe to pay for his things, he found himself staring at his new friend. Norm liked being a woman, right from the first, but he found that his sexual attraction was still mostly oriented towards females. And Joe was a most attractive female. It was a strange feeling, having a woman's body, and a woman's feelings... but still having a man's desires. In Norm, those desires had diminished a but, due to age, and the death of his wife, but they were back now, almost as strong as he could ever remember them to be. What did it mean? Was he destined to be changed to a woman, only to become lesbian? Soon, Joe was finished, and they lugged their packages out of the store and down the wide hallway. Joe guided them to Goldwater's, where he knew there would be clothes Norm would like. Entering Goldwater's, they went through the juniors sportswear department. Joe looked at the swimsuits and exercise wear. He stopped at the Gilda Marx section, and examined a pair of spandex bike shorts. "You want something like that?" Norm asked. "Yeah. I need another outfit for when I go to aerobics with Linda." Joe said. "You exercise with the women?" Norm asked incredulously. "Sure. Why not?" Joe replied. "I'd sure make an impression if I tried to work out with the guys, right?" "You go into their dressing room, and everything?" Norm continued. "Sure. What do you expect?" Joe responded. "What's it like in there?" Norm went on. "If you really want to know, you should come along." Joe said, grinning. "You might as well get used to it, your going to be living a lot closer to women from now on." Norm looked at Joe. He hadn't given much thought to what everyday life was going to be like, now that he was metamorphosing into a woman much younger feeling and looking than he had been as male. This truly was going to take some getting used to. "You think I could go along with you some time?" Norm asked. "Sure." Joe said. "Of course you can. You should, it'll keep you fit." "I feel better than I have in years." Norm interjected. "Yeah, but you don't want to end up as a fat old woman, do you?" "Joe, I'm already looking a whole lot younger than I expected to, and I don't remember ever being this flexible" Norm answered. "Yeah. I feel the same way. A women's joints must be a lot more compliant, or something." Joe moved his hand behind his back as he spoke. "I can easily touch my spine with my palm." "I better get some of these clothes too." Norm said changing the subject. He picked up a sexy, hot pink, crop top and examined its construction. "Last week I bought some undershirts... now this week, little pink bras...." Norm mused, as if thinking to himself. He had come a long way in just two days. "You wanted it." Joe reminded him. "You got it." "It's not that I mind... Not at all." Norm said, dropping the little bra. "I just have to stop once in a while... And allow it all to sink in." "Yeah... I find myself doing that too." Joe added. "Sometimes it seems overwhelming." "But fun." Norm reminded him. "Yeah... That too, sometimes at least." Joe agreed. "But I think you enjoy this girl stuff a little more than I do." "I don't understand how you can not love it." Norm objected. "Ask me when I've had my first period." Joe countered. "I wish I would have one." Norm mused. "I wonder if it could happen?" "I don't know." Joe considered. "You sure look young enough. I wonder what your 'female' age might be?" "Humph, I feel like a kid again." Norm said. "A horny one too, I might add." "Well, just remember, you might just be able to get pregnant now." Joe interjected. "You better keep that fancy underwear on till you know for sure." "No problem there, I'm not horny to be with a man." Norm said. "I don't have any interest in them." Joe began to realize what Norm was trying to say. "What are you telling me?" Joe asked. Don't tell me you don't like to look at women." Norm objected. "I saw how you looking at the sales girl." "Yeah, I know... I still look at women." Joe admitted. "I can't help that. But it's not the same... How can it be... I mean..." "I've seen how you look at me." Norm continued. "You must admit, you still think like a guy, too." "It's changing, Norm, it really is." Joe tried to explain. "I did feel like you do, but something is happening... Men really don't seem so bad, you know." "You talk like you've already had some experience." Norm went on, obviously fishing for information. "A little." Joe admitted. "Enough to know you'd probably like it." He grinned knowingly. "Just what did you do?" Norm pressed. "You can tell me." "Nothing I want to discuss right now." Joe said, ending the subject. "Did you... er make love with a... er a man?" Norm continued. Joe said nothing more about it. Norm realized he had reached an impasse and stopped pushing. Norm held up a silk blouse. "How do you like this?" He asked. "I know you'll love the feel." Joe felt the cloth with his fingers. It was so smooth, so sensual. Who could not like silk? "Yeah. I adore it." Joe admitted. "I'll tell you what, I'll buy it for you." Norm offered. "Just to show I'm really sorry for being so nosy." "You don't need to buy anything for me, Norm." Joe said. "I'm billing Honeybone for most of this stuff anyway." He grinned. Norm looked at Joe, as if surprised, then his face broke into a big smile. "I suppose you should." Norm agreed. "It's not you're fault you need stuff like this, is it?" "I wouldn't have any thought of even wanting if it weren't for what happened at the airport." Joe reminded him. "I keep forgetting, this was a total accident for you." Norm said apologetically. "A very strange one, I might add." "That's for sure." Joe agreed. "But still an accident." Joe bought the silk blouse, as did Norm. They were getting many of the same type of things, with Norm usually getting at least one of anything Joe would purchase. It was almost starting to bother Joe, since Norm tended to follow him around like a little sister, in spite of the disparity in their ages. Soon they came to the intimate apparel section. "You need to get some underwear to go with your exercise clothes." Joe reminded Norm. "Great!" Norm replied enthusiastically. "What should I get?" "I suggest a good support bra, not that you really need any support." Joe advised, commenting on Norm's figure, which much like his own, was shapely but still very firm. Gravity had only hours to work its havoc so far. But Joe knew from experience that boob bounce was not particularly comfortable. Norm approached the task with enthusiasm. He now knew his size, indeed, he was wearing his first bra, and he seemed to relish buying "female" things like bras. Joe didn't mind it himself, but he approached the whole thing with more trepidation than Norm, who seemed to be developing a completely different personality since his time in the cage. Joe wondered if the same thing had happened to him too, and he just didn't know it. Soon Norm was fitted with a snug sport bra, and matching support panty. He bought two, one white, and one a very feminine peach color. He talked Joe into the same thing in a light blue, but only after Joe refused to consider pink. "You are having fun." Norm told Joe. "I can tell, no matter what you say." Joe smiled. He was having fun, but he was much more apprehensive than Norm about trying and buying things. "I only hope you're this excited after PMS." Joe teased. They continued examining the clothes, with Joe buying an item here and there... A slip he knew he needed... A silky camisole, because Norm said he should. Eventually, they had everything they felt they needed, and practically more than they could carry. Joe helped with some of Norm's packages, and they struggled to the car with their bounty. "Let's take this stuff to my room and try it on." Norm suggested. "I'll help you get yours to your hotel." Joe volunteered, but I want to get this stuff to my place too." "I want to see you in it." Norm almost begged. "Come over after while." Joe said. "Bring your swimsuit, and some of the other stuff if you want. I'll help you with it." "Great!" Norm almost squealed. "I can't wait!" Joe was becoming amazed at how enthused Norm was concerning his new femininity. Sure, it was interesting, and indeed, the new softness of his body felt kind of nice, but he wasn't finding the gender change nearly as exciting as Norm, at least the area of buying and wearing clothes. As they carried the things to the car, Joe couldn't help but notice how the change had affected the strength of his arms and upper body in general. He actually had to strain to make the last few yards. He felt embarrassed until he considered the facts. "Hey, I don't have anything to prove." He thought to himself. "I'm not male anymore. There's no reason to think I should still be strong as a guy." It was interesting to watch Norm as he adjusted to the physical changes in his body. While he was more nimble than before, he had plainly lost strength too, but he obviously didn't realize it yet. He kept moving his packages from one aching arm to the other, and then resorted to holding them in front of him as he leaned far back. "It's getting harder, isn't it?" Joe said, grinning at Norm's awkward gait. "Yeah... I just can't lift as much." Norm agreed, placing the things against the back of Joe's car. "That's cause you don't have balls." Joe teased. "We've both become wimpy girli-men." "I'm sorry if you don't like it." Norm apologized. "But I've never been happier in my life, even if I am a wimp." He smiled and blinked his eyes in an exaggerated fashion. "Oh, it's not so bad, I admit." Joe conceded. "I just wish I could have it both ways." "That might be interesting." Norm agreed. "A woman's body, with a man's strength. Can't happen." "I can wish." Joe repeated. They drove to Norm's hotel, and Joe helped Norm carry his things to his room. Norm wanted Joe to stay and help him try things on. Joe wanted to go home too, and try his own things on. He wanted Norm to come to Linda's later. "Stick around and help me with these things." Norm asked. "I can use your experience." "I really should go home." Joe differed. "Why don't you come over in a little while?" "I'll come over..." Norm countered. "But first, you've got to help me with this swimsuit. I want to try it without any underwear. And I want your opinion on my other new clothes. We've got plenty of time." "OK." Joe conceded. "I'll stay for a while... But not long." Norm began opening bags and boxes. He separated the underwear into piles, and then he examined the swimsuit. "I'm still finding it difficult to accept that this even fits me." Norm exclaimed. He pinched at the formed bra cups as he spoke. "It does." Joe said. "It might even be too small in a week or so." He teased. Norm pulled the T-shirt over his head, and looked at his bra covered breasts. "This thing actually feels rather good." He said simply, putting both hands under his breasts, and lifting them up gently. "Yeah." Joe agreed. "I don't feel right without one anymore." "These things are too much!" Norm continued, unhooking his bra and pulling it away. He stood staring at his bare chest in the mirror. Joe watched him as Norm ogled his own body. Joe knew what it was like. He still did the same thing himself, quite often. "They won't go away." Joe said. They'll be there every time you want them. "And I love it." Norm said to himself, turning to see his profile. "I just love it." "You're quite attractive." Joe said, voicing his thoughts, "Not nearly as pretty as you." Norm countered. "You look like an angel... a young angel." "It's still me here, Norm." Joe reminded him. "I'm a thirty year old guy inside." "I'm sorry, but I didn't know you then." Norm reminded. "You've always been like this in my memory. And I think your absolutely gorgeous." Norm reached over and rubbed his soft hand along Joe's cheek, like a guy might do to a woman he is attracted to. Joe looked at Norm. "What's that about?" Joe asked. He smiled, but obviously confused by Norm's actions. "It's hard for me to keep my hands off you." Norm apologized, the redness of embarrassment showing clearly on his feminized face. "Look at yourself." Joe teased. "You look about the same as I do." "I may look different, but I still feel like a man... In some ways, more than I have in years in fact." Norm said. Joe looked at him. "So what do you want to do?" Joe asked, smiling demurely. "There's the bed. Want to get it on?" "Heh heh. You don't know how much I'd like to." Norm said. "But, just what would we do? What could we do? I mean... Look at us." "You look so good to me." Norm said. "If I could be a guy again, for just a few minutes... I could show you what it's like as a woman..." After he spoke, Norm planted a kiss right on Joe's lips. Norm's soft face and skin felt sensuous against his own. After an initial resistance, Joe began to reciprocate willingly. He put his arm around Norm's shoulder as Norm pulled him closer. When they finished, they looked into each others eyes. Joe spoke first. "This is weird." He said. "I know you're really a guy, but I can't help but think of you as a woman... A very pretty woman." Norm was breathing hard. "Man... I'm telling you... Maybe you think of me as female, but I... I desire you like I haven't wanted a woman... I can't remember when... Joe suddenly realized the irony of the situation. He began to giggle. "You want me, and I want you..." He snickered. "And neither of us are equipped to do anything about it." Norm looked down at the curves of his bare chest. He took Joe's hand and placed it on his breast. "Touch me... Please." Norm almost pleaded. Joe stroked Norm's left breast. It was as firm, but soft, as it looked. He smiled. "Very nice." Joe complimented. "It feels good, too." Norm said, his eyes closed as he savored the soft touch. "I know." Joe admitted, smiling knowingly. "Ohh, God!" Norm exclaimed. "This feels so strange." He placed a hand at his crotch, and began to rub himself. Joe left his hand on Norm's breast as he watched Norm masturbate through his panties. It was evident that Norm has become very sensitive and sensual since the change, at least as much as Joe. In a few moments, Norm stopped and regained a little composure. He realized Joe was watching, and became embarrassed. "I'm sorry Joe." Norm apologized. "It just came over me... The feeling... It's too good... Too much." "Don't worry about it." Joe assured him. "Believe me, I understand what you're going through." He did, too. Since the change, it just seemed that all his senses were amplified. It was a strange, but highly pleasant feeling. Recovered as much as possible, Norm removed his panties, examining the very wet crotch. He looked at Joe, who watched silently. "Well, this is a unique experience, isn't it." Norm commented, an embarrassed grin on his face. "I never thought about this happening." "It's the way it is." Joe agreed. "That's how it is for women, I suppose. I didn't realize you could feel it so well." "Yeah, I think I feel everything more now." Norm agreed. "My skin, my nerves are just so much more sensitive." Joe watched as Norm tried on some other things. He commented on each, making suggestions or recommendations as necessary. He had been female only a little over a week, but he was already more experienced in dressing and wearing the clothes. He tried to help Norm the way Linda helped him. In a while, Joe excused himself and said he had to be going. He explained how to get to Linda's house, and told Norm to come in a few hours. On the drive home, Joe considered the evening. Maybe he'd invite the others over this evening too. He hadn't seen much of Dave, Mike, or Tim in a few days. It would be good to get together in private and compare recent experiences.